poetry

From the Archives: Reading and Interviewing Margaret Atwood, 1993-2022

By STEVE PAUL

With Margaret Atwood coming to Kansas City soon for a library talk (Sept. 24), I thought I’d dredge up a couple of related old pieces. I had the opportunity to meet and interview Atwood in 1993 at the annual American Booksellers Association confab (now Book Expo) in Miami. Her novel The Robber Bride was coming out that fall and her publisher had sent me an early copy of the book—so-called advance review copies were not yet ready, so they sent me a dupe of the typed manuscript. I’ll concede that my reading of Atwood was rather conventional if not underwhelming from today’s perspective. Then again, the interview with her remains enlightening.

In talking about the essential status of mythology in contemporary story-telling, one of the driving forces of her writing, she illustrated:

“One of the founding stories of U.S. culture is the biblical quotation ‘by their fruits they shall know them.’ It was originally intended spiritually—you know good people by how they behave. But it was interpreted by the Puritans to mean you can tell good people by how rich they are, which is with us today. It underlies so much literature in this culture—the idea of sin and redemption.”

Find reproductions of the two pieces, published Nov. 14, 1993 in the Kansas City Star, in three images below.

In more recent years, I had the pleasure of encountering Atwood at the Key West Literary Seminar. She spoke again about myth and fable. In my memory she talked about the movie “Aquaman” as a product of myth. The movie had just recently come out and she suggested that she watched it so we wouldn’t have to. (I still haven’t gotten around to it.) One morning in Key West, we ended up at a Duval Street CVS at the same time, where I met her husband, the writer Graeme Gibson. He would die just months later, as I recall.

Atwood happens to make a cameo appearance in my biography-in-progress of William Stafford. This goes back a ways to Atwood’s years as an emerging poet and fiction writer (her first novel was published in 1969). Shortly after being named Poetry Consultant to the Library of Congress for 1970-71, what we now call the U.S. Poet Laureate, Stafford put Atwood’s name on a short list of writers he would like to host during his tenure. He wanted to make sure women were represented on what was very much a male-dominated field. Sure enough, one of the first reading programs Stafford hosted in the fall of 1970 brought together Atwood and Galway Kinnell.

In 2022 I wrote to Atwood to see what she might recall of the event and/or Stafford. She kindly replied, hand-writing her response on my original letter and sending it back to me:

“I was 30! A very minor figure! …I love Wm Stafford’s poetry in book form—but he was a big cheese and I was a very small cheeselet.”

And here’s a blog bonus: An audio recording of the reading can be found at the Library of Congress website. Find it here and enjoy:

https://www.loc.gov/item/95770388/


A Suite of Jazz Poems

Over the last few years i’ve found a place for some of my jazz poems at JerryJazzMusician.com, a hand-built enterprise that offers a wide array of music-inspired study, commentary, history, and creative production. See the editor Joe Maita’s recent interview with Glenn Mott, who edited a collection of Stanley Crouch’s previously uncollected essays and critical pieces, Victory is Assured. (I wrote about Crouch’s book for KC Studio last September-October.) All well and good, but I thought it might be a decent idea to round up some of my poems that Joe has published. Given that my poetry practice remains mostly a private affair, I’m grateful for the outlet.

Piano

“In the creative state a man … lets down as it were a bucket into his subconscious…”
—E.M. Forster

.

Taking Forster’s bucket
into the unknown
like Keith Jarrett

in Bremen sailing
into pianissimo

pedals and digits and the dust
of oblivion all summoned
to transform silence

into a path where
bees sting where
hearts bleed where
buckets slosh and spill

torqued with bop and bounce,
they teeter back toward
stillness.

……………………..first published in New Letters

The Night I Heard Mose Allison Sing

Was in 1984, not yet 20 years after
I’d first heard that Southern drawl, soft
as cotton or Mississippi silt,
and those plaintive and wacky blues
lyrics that floated out of my little radio
in the night air.

But now, in the heart of the country,
Mose was looking academic, his gray hair
and beard neatly trimmed. He wore
a seersucker jacket.

At the piano, with a local bass player
and drummer I knew,
Mose first launched into a boogie-woogie
rhythm, with slightly skewed riffs, just
off balance. There was a maelstrom of
notes in double time, and I wondered,
as those sounds reached my ears, if I could characterize
it all as Looney-tunes meets Fats Waller meets Chopin.
Or maybe just Waller and Chopin, piano stars
of equal stature, I’d say.

Fifteen minutes into the piece, he shifted
to a darker place, then back to this
orchestral craziness. (Do you remember
this, Bob Bowman, deep in your string bass
aural archive? Would your fingers ever
recognize that jazz abandon again?)

Then we applauded Mose’s ear for a great
song, Percy Mayfield’s “Lost Mind,” and
I can still hear Mose sing, “If you would be so
kind as to help me find my mind…”*

After another offbeat tune,
Mose slowed down to sing
“Everybody’s Cryin’ Mercy,”
which speaks to us today
in the darkness: “people
running round in circles,
don’t know what they’re heading for.”*

I could name all of the songs he played,
because just now I found the notebook
where I wrote it all down, his tributes
to Duke Ellington, Willie Dixon
and the lesser-known Johnny Fuller,
a blues man who came out of Mississippi,
landed in Oakland and within 12 months
of this glorious Mose night
would be dead at an age we all hope to live past.

It looks like I must have written down
all the words, as Mose sang them, of “How
Much Truth,” not
knowing then one iota of what I know
30-plus years later about truth and whether
the world is “left without its daydream…
threatened by the works of man…Destined
for the frying pan.”*

Mose, dead now just one month
at the age of 89, took his piano
to the edge of chaos
more than once that night. That’s what
we live for, the truth and transformation
in music, crystalline moments that help us find
our lost minds and deliver meaning
in the love and the mist.

.

Quoted lyrics by Percy Mayfield (“Lost Mind”) and Mose Allison (“Everybody’s Cryin’ Mercy,” “How Much Truth”)

.

by Steve Paul

Body And Soul

The jazz man spoke
of his ancestors, the
lineage that brought
him to where he is.
Do not shine your
light on yourself, he

told the students
gathered around.
Honor the past,
honor the trials
of simple existence,
honor the pain and

blood that came
before you, and the
greatness that grew
despite all of that.
When he riffed

on “Body and Soul,”
the sounds coming
from all his circuits,
darting in and hinting
at the melody as we
knew it, reshaping,

and making the song his
own body in the moment,
his soul saxed message
was obvious, went
straight to the
heart and the blood.

.

by Steve Paul; in tribute to Logan Richardson

The Horn

The neighbor with
a trumpet stumbles
through “Watermelon

Man” on his porch,
an act to mitigate
loneliness perhaps

to reach beyond
the distance of
homeboundedness

“Lean on Me,” he
tries, knowing
we’ve lost the

songwriter who
made it an anthem
the notes skitter

around Withers’
melody like scouts
on a mission

securing the
perimeter,
protecting the

body and its
fragile
hymn.

.

by Steve Paul

Three Tiny Poems

Nutty

The twirler, the plinker-plunker
be minor, be diminished,
be neither of those things,
the waking, the daily glories,
the human scales
and ache-y arrows to heart, to ear,
I dream of Monkishness supreme

.

Ornithology

Bird call this morning is alto-sax heir of
that Bird, jabs and run-ons and then a melodic line
flits in again;

outside, the sun: dog on a leash,
finches galore stab at seeds,
everyone wonders
what else is there?

.

Havana Vibes

A conga player collides with “Pork-Pie
Hat,” the woman vibist fists two mallets,
follows bandmates into a driving, propulsive sound—
her stance languid, lanky, her long arms made moreso
as she stares into the music, now a Cuban bounce
thick like picadillo with piano and drums one on top of the other,
her mallets fly above like lightning bugs in the night.

From the Archives: A Chat With Robert Bly

As I’ve been delving into the life and work of William Stafford, on the way toward a possible biography, I couldn’t help but take a new interest in Robert Bly, who became an important champion of Stafford’s poetry. I was sorry to learn of Bly’s recent death. I’d been reading a new book about Bly’s raucous period as the argumentative editor of a small-press poetry journal, serially called The Fifties, The Sixties, and, finally, The Seventies (only one issue under that title). The book is Born Under the Sign of Odin, by Mark Gustafson. I had a few memories of hearing Bly read his work and presiding over a men’s workshop in Kansas City many years ago. Until I dug out an old file, I’d forgotten that I’d actually interviewed him, by phone, in 1992, in advance of one of his Kansas City events. This was at the height of Bly’s fame in the Iron John era, the work in which he explored the power and necessity of myth. So, here’s that piece, which first appeared in the Kansas City Star on October 15, 1992. It ran under the headline “Men's work: Poet Robert Bly uses yesterday's stories to touch today's lives.”  

By STEVE PAUL

Two years ago this fall Robert Bly underwent an unexpected rite of passage. 

  The Minnesota writer, author by then of more than a dozen volumes of poetry and prose, translator of 15 others by European and South American poets, and editor of a handful of anthologies, issued a book that, in the course of its long and still-beating shelf life, not only exceeded sales of all the rest but turned its thoughtful, white-maned author into a pop-culture personality. 

  The poet as media sensation! Unheard of.

  But Bly's book, Iron John: A Book About Men, captured the imagination of hundreds of thousands of readers. It also inspired widespread and vigorous discussion of the meaning of men's lives ("What Do Men Really Want?," Newsweek's cover eventually blared) and put Bly into the thick of a talk-show and speaking-tour whirlwind.

  But once you've seen the mountaintop of fame - People magazine chose Bly as one of the 25 most intriguing people of 1991 - how can you slip back into the contemplative and relatively unnoticed valley of the poet? 

  Bly says it's not at all difficult. The attention finally has waned, and he says he's sticking to his vow to take a year off from speaking and teaching and furthering his "men's work." His hiatus has been interrupted only by some prior commitments, including a speaking engagement Friday at Johnson County Community College and a daylong workshop for men Saturday at Avila College.

  "In general I've been wonderfully at home and lying down and reading and doing some poems," Bly says by telephone from his cabin - he calls it his writing place - at Moose Lake, Minn. "So I'm enjoying it a lot." 

  Bly says he wasn't totally unaccustomed to being in the public eye. He was an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam War, and with Kansas City poet David Ray, helped organize poets against the war through public readings and publications. That was a similar public expression of feeling, he says - an example, like Iron John, of "someone saying things that needed to be said." 

   "But," he adds, "it's no trouble to drop out at all and go back to writing poetry. Thoreau said, `When you give a speech, there's usually an occasion for it, and you give it to those who can hear.' Then he said, `When you write, you write for those who can understand, and the occasion is your whole life.' Isn't that wonderful?"

  Through a combination of ancient mythology, contemporary psychology, poetry and, especially, a deep reading of the "Iron John" fairy tales collected by the Grimm brothers early in the 19th century, Bly's book gave men and women an understanding of a great "father hunger," as Bly puts it, that has beset the lives of boys and men since the Industrial Revolution. 

  He touched many lives bound in confusion over the role of men in society. And, perhaps, he presented a moral touchstone to those set adrift in the greedy fervor of the 1980s.

  Long a student of ancient storytelling, Bly helped point readers to the archetypal lessons of mythology. "Mythology," he writes in Iron John, "helps to give weight to our private wounds Without the weight given by a wound consciously realized, the man will lead a provisional life."

  The book helped to bare the soul of a burgeoning "men's movement." For a decade Bly had been conducting weekend "wild man" retreats in the woods. The concept accelerated in early 1990 when Bill Moyers presented Bly and his men's work in a PBS special and hit warp-drive when Iron John appeared in November of that year, on its way to spending nearly 60 weeks on the hardcover best-seller lists.

  Ever since, books about men and their grief have proliferated, including, just this month, The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart, a collection of 300 poems "for men," which Bly co-edited (HarperCollins; $25).

  Bly is gratified that his workshops, such as the one he'll conduct here Saturday, have opened up a new audience for poetry. 

  "Some of the complicated grief that men have is best described by poems," he says. "Poems make it more clear. Sociological language can't do it. Psychological language can't do it."

The emerging poet

  Bly's journey to the upper ranks of American poetry began on the farm in western Minnesota that his great-grandparents settled after immigrating from Norway. He served two years in the Navy in World War II, and it was there, he says, that he discovered the power of the poem. 

  "I met the first person I knew who wrote poetry in the Navy," Bly says. "He wrote a poem in front of me. I was stunned. I'd never seen anyone write a poem. I thought the books wrote them. It went something like, `The south side of Chicago is like a running sore on a large body.'

  "What did I know? To me, that was wonderful. The idea that someone could make up an image like that was amazing." 

  Bly then applied to Harvard University and got in. There he studied with Archibald MacLeish and joined what is now an impressive list of fellow writing students, including Donald Hall, Kenneth Koch, George Plimpton, John Hawkes and Adrienne Rich. 

  Bly opted against graduate school and chose instead "the old route of the person in the garret."

  "So I went to New York and made my living as a file clerk one day a week, a typist one day a week and, toward the end, a house painter. 

  "Those were wonderful years, because in a way I escaped graduate school and I had time to read and time to brood and be depressed."

  There was something wonderful about it, because here I had been at college and suddenly I was at the bottom of the whole heap and people could look at me and instantly understand that I was not very far away from being a bag man. 

  "In a way it took away my fear of falling. A lot of people think that if they don't do the right thing, the safe thing, they'll fall through their class."

  By 1962 Bly had published his first book of poems, Silence in the Snowy Fields. He came to prominence later in the decade with his opposition to the Vietnam War and his book The Light Around the Body (1968).

  In the wake of Iron John, several of his best-known poetry collections were reissued last year, including The Light Around the Body; The Man in the Black Coat Turns (1981), which explored father-son relationships; Loving a Woman in Two Worlds (1985); and Selected Poems (1986).

  This year HarperCollins published a collection of Bly's prose poems, What Have I Ever Lost By Dying? That book draws together work spanning more than 20 years, largely observations of nature, family and love. Because of the straightforward, detail-packed style of the prose-poem form, the work tends to be more immediately accessible than the more surreal dreamscapes of his lyrics.

  Bly says he plans another book like Iron John that will deal with several fairy tales. Before that will come a new collection of poems that he has been working on for some years. Many of the poems are about his father.

Easily misunderstood 

  Bly recognizes that his recent work and the movement it has fed are not universally admired.

  "Women have received so much depreciation from men," he says, "that they are justifiably afraid that when men get together they are liable to do something to women."

  The media is to blame, he says, for its oversimplifications and tendency to focus its images on the drum-beating extremes. Bly's metaphors of the inner wild man or soul warrior are easily

misinterpreted. ("Warrior doesn't mean you go to the gulf war," he has said elsewhere. "It means you fight inside your community for what is good.")

  "Most women get the big picture out of the media," he says, "and there's a lot of false pictures of it floating around  But some of the same things that are now being said about the men's movement were said about the women's movement when it began." 

  Typical of the criticism is April Bernard's recent assessment in The New Republic. Reviewing The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart and another book of men's poetry, Bernard wrote: "While it would be unfair, of course, to fault men as a group for exploring their feelings, it could be argued that they have already done that, in what is loosely known as The History of Civilization."

   Bernard characterizes Bly as something of a huckster and particularly disingenuous, betrayed by his language, in his "claim to embrace women, or feminism."

  "For some of those young women feminists," Bly counters, "they are not writing about the book. They are attempting to establish themselves in the eyes of their women peers, and for that they've got to hit it hard."

  Bly has gone beyond the men-only approach by presenting workshops for both sexes in collaboration with Marion Woodman, a Jungian analyst in Toronto. A year ago he and Deborah Tannen, the popular author of You Just Don't Understand, a book about how men and women fail to communicate, gave a joint program in New York on "Men and Women Talking Together."

  Bly is adamant about the value for men and women in such soul-searching work.

  "I'm not a separatist in any way," he says. "I think that many women who participated in the women's movement 20 years ago did marvelous things. They helped to bring out pain and anger that hadn't been expressed, which really is important. Women now feel that something else is needed - it's time to stop attacking men and see if we can get along.

  "The people in the media seem to want more anger between men and women. They are always trying to get us to say something inflammatory. Men and women themselves want less anger and more reconciliation."

In Memoriam: Michelle Boisseau

This is a belatedly posted excerpt from a piece I wrote for KC Studio magazine. It first appeared online in December 2017 and in the Jan-Feb 2018 issue of the local arts journal.

MBPicforKCStudio002.jpg

Cancer had taken two siblings prematurely as well as her mother, and then, in mid-November, it took her, at the age of 62. But through it all, Michelle aimed the laser focus of her poet’s eye and the wisdom of her philosopher’s heart to carry her — and her inner circle of family and friends — through.

In fact, a predominant theme of her most recent book was how we face mortality. “You can’t talk// your way out of this impasse, said the crows,” she wrote in “Among the Gorgons,” her most recent collection of poems. She called this spiraling life we all engage in, the life that always takes us to death, “The Obstinate Comedy.” Just like her, she might have found the phrase in the work of Leigh Hunt, a London poet and critic of the 19th century known for his association with Keats and Shelley. But the places her poem takes you — “ahead of me something was// taking up all the space”; “each tree a history of flying in place” — are singularly hers, alive with balletic language, and now ours.

To read the whole thing: 

http://kcstudio.org/remembering-michelle-boisseau-legacy-language/